Portfolio update November 2017

Portfolio P2P investments Swaper Robo.cash Twino Mintos Bondora Crowdestate reviewMonthly cash flow for November

Bondora returned 130,82€ (-90,09€ less than last month)

Twino returned 119,10€ (+5,61€ more than last month)

Swaper returned 75,43€ (+2,26€ more than last month)

Robocash returned 31,24€ (-1,52€ less than last month)

Crowdestate returned 46,31€ (-7,11€ less than last month)

Mintos returned 12,17€ (+0,11€ more than last month)

This gives me a total of 415,07 (-90,97€ less than last month)
which equals 13,84% of my first goal (-3,03% less than last month)

I stopped reinvesting in Bondora

The down trend is clear. Even Bondora knows it and one of their latest blog posts “how to successfully liquidate your portfolio” is more relevant than ever. Current amount (green loans) decreases month after month while more and more go into default.

26.080€ invested 2 years ago with continuous reinvesting only returned 130,80€ last month. According to Bondora my account value is 35.244€. If that was true I should receive at least 300€ net interest every month. Of course with some ups and downs but I have only seen one 300€ month since december 2016. And it seems to get worse and worse as time goes by.

I’m still waiting for the trend to reverse but it doesn’t seem to happen any time soon. I haven’t sold any loans on the secondary market yet, not even freshly obtained loans.

I’m in contact with the Bondora team and I will give them one final chance to convince me that it would be wise to keep reinvesting.

Twino

Investing with Twino is still a lot of manual work. I have to login daily between 22:00 and midnight to be able to get 11% loans. I’m only staying to reduce my overall risk by being invested into multiple platforms. Twino used to be my favorite. A part of me is hoping the loan volume and interest rate will go back up.

Swaper

Monthly return on Swaper was really high in November as well. I’m not sure how it’s possible but I received a 75€ return on a 5.300€ investment with 14% interest rate. Technically I should only receive about 62€ on average. But who am I to complain? 🙂 I expect the return to come back down to this level next month.

Robocash

The cash drag on Robocash seems to be gone (at least for now). From November 14th the auto-invest robot gave me new loans every day. I’m very happy about that. I expect December to be a new record month for returns on Robocash.

Real estate

Buying investment property is not easy when you’re just starting out. Getting a mortgage for a business is a jungle compared to private mortgages. Every property with more than 1 apartment is a business according to danish law (unless you live in one of them). I was rejected by 3 mortgage lenders. Not even taking your economy into consideration, the mortgage lenders often reject offering a mortgage, just because the property value is low and they think it’s too much work for the hassle. WTF? I would never have guessed that when I started searching for real estate investments.

I would have made a separate post last month about the financing situation but I couldn’t get any response from the banks.

Mortgage size on real estate investments

This is just a small side note to the Danish investors reading my blog. 9 out of 10 banks in Denmark will try to screw you. They will tell you that only 60% mortgage is allowed for business investments and 80% is allowed if you’re buying it for private use. That is not true. According to the danish law a 80% mortgage is allowed no matter what.

The current situation

Working with bank no. 4, I’m currently working on taking over the existing mortgage from the seller. The mortgage lender agreed to do this, if they considered my finances to be good enough. They got all my details yesterday and I’m waiting for the evaluation. My economy should easily be good enough for a cheap property like this but you never know with those mortgage lenders!

This is the property I’m in the process of buying

Subscribers

A lot of people subscribed to my Blog in November using the pop-up when leaving the page. If you subscribed, please make sure to confirm the subscription email that is sent to you. In case you didn’t get any email, please check your spam filter. If your subscription is not confirmed, you will not be able to receive any updates.

Plans for December

No new funds will be invested this month. I want to make sure I have enough cash to pay for the property once everything is settled with the bank. The lawyer also needs to be paid and I’m also considering hiring an accountant who specializes in real estate.

12 Replies to “Portfolio update November 2017”

  1. Hi Jørgen,

    I share your concerns regarding Bondora. My greatest grief towards this platform is the lack of reliability of the statistics they provide. The expected returns seem to be totally inflated…

    Regarding Twino, frankly, I’m puzzled as to why you don’t switch to Grupeer for example, in order to reach your diversification target. Doing so much work for 11% returns seems insane to me ! Another opportunity would be DoFinance, returning 12% with zero effort. But of course, I understand it’s annoying to close accounts and move funds around !

    Another thing I’m curious about is why didn’t you give Omaraha a try ? The interface sucks but the returns are much more solid than Bondora’s, and they’re much more transparent once you understand how to read the statistics !

    Have a nice day !

  2. Hi Jérôme,

    I have been thinking about moving funds from Twino to other platforms. The reason why I stick with Twino for now is that I can have my money back in my bank account within 2 days. The limited amount of loans they provide makes the secondary market much more liquid.

    Grupeer is definitely on my watch list. They are very small though, only 1.1 mio EUR of loans issued. Their web site design with the boat theme didn’t really catch me. To me, it looks like a cheap WordPress theme. Those things combined made me want to wait and see.

    The returns on DoFinance is simply too small for my likings. Don’t see any reason for going after 12% for 6-60 months, when I can get 14% short term loans on Robocash and Swaper.

    I never really considered Omaraha. I read and heard a lot about them though. But after I found platforms offering buyback I don’t really see the need for adding in “another Bondora”. I know it’s not exactly the same, but I just prefer companies offering buyback.

  3. With Bondora, you should expect gradual decline in interest payments once you stop reinvesting. I did the same more than a year ago, watched the stream of interest decrease and and after couple of months sold all the green and yellow loans. Now I still have 186 loans in red, generating up to 15 euros of principal recovery per month, not a cent of interest from those loans, so am always puzzled when Bondora talks about long term recovery – I started in spring 2014. My XIRR is -1,4% and falling. Sell the green ones ASAP.

  4. Even faster gradual decline is of course expected when reinvesting is turned off. I will not sell the good performing loans. I think would be a big mistake and I expect it would affect the XIRR tremendously in a negative way.

    I’m considering reinvesting into a few selected short term loans. The monthly volume on those loans is very limited so I would only get a small amount.

    I decided to visit Bondora’s head office in Tallinn in mid January. I wan’t to meet the people behind and get a better impression of the future for the company. Recovery will definitely be one of the hot topics for discussion.

  5. There just is no way of knowing how long the well performing ones remain green, if they did continue performing well, then stopping the reinvesting would not affect the interest payment. I had loads of loans that performed well couple of month and then just died.

  6. About Bondora. I invested about 500Eur to a test platform and after half of year I understood – its fool. Stopped, sold all the green loans and now have only ~-60Eur profit. There are only 2 cents per month payments and I am happy 🙂 Then I found your blog, I was shocked how big investment you where made there! Its really loose of money.

  7. Hello Jørgen I started to put some money in Bondera just one month ago. I get a little nervous when i see your progres with them, what are you thoughts on them, if you where me and just started?
    Nice blog!! And Good luck with the Real estate, i bought a appartment just a year ago regards Christian

  8. Hi Christian,

    Thanks for subscribing!

    I think Bondora is a good company and I still have trust in them. But it’s a VERY long term investment. I’d say 5-7 years at least. If you need to cash out earlier than planned, it will reduce your ROI significantly .

    If I just started on Bondora 1 month ago, I would probably sell everything and find another investment. Not because I believe Bondora is a bad investment, there’s just more options today, where you’ll sleep better at night. However, it’s also a matter of how much you invested. If it’s just a small amount, I’d probably stay in, just to get the experience of investing with the company.

    Personally, I love sites with buyback guarantee. If Bondora offered a buyback guarantee product, or anything alike, where you’d be able to get your initial investment back within a reasonable amount of time, I’d be much more positive!

    Where are you from, and where is your appartment located?

    1. I put in 900 to Bondora, but i also like the buy back guarantee as in mintos. Are the other investments you have also with buy back guarantee? I could be in it for the long run, but if i end up with the same % as mintos i don’t want to be apart of waiting for getting my money back or loose them. I have 300 i mintos. But maybe i need to turn the volume Down on Bondera. I’m from Denmark Cph and my appartment is in Korsør.

      1. Hi Christian,

        My investments on Swaper and Robocash and Twino have buyback guarantee as well. If you’re just starting out I would recommend trying a few different companies, to see which one suits you best.

  9. hello jorgen.nice blog you have.keep the good job and inspire us more.i am antreas .i live in greece and i am an agroeconomist.i look forward to start investing and thinking about robocash.do you suggest it or start with other service?thanks in advance.

    1. Hi Antreas,

      Welcome to the blog. Robocash is a nice platform that is very easy to setup and requires no work at all. It’s great if you’re looking for passive investments. You get 14% interest rate and buyback guarantee on all loans.

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